Doctors for Life – High on Hypocrisy

Prohibitionist Christian organisation, Doctors for Life, issued a press release last week in response to my quotes featured in a recent News24 article about cannabis legalization. Below is Doctors for Life’s press release, followed by my public response.

International

Doctors for Life’s Press Release

Dagga: Forget the Buzz, it’s the facts that count!

Press Release 16 August 2012

News 24 recently featured an article on the decriminalization of dagga (cannabis) by an activist who goes by the name of Buzz. Doctors for Life International is intrigued by the position taken this activist as the whole article seems to be based more on Buzz’ impressions than real facts.

Buzz claims that decriminalizing dagga will:
• not lead to a rise in it’s use
• will make it possible to control it’s sales
• make it less attractive
• take it out of the hands of organized crime

To justify his argument he quotes the Dutch government’s liberal policies of quite some time ago on Cannabis and its use.

The opinion negates numerous studies amongst which is the massive, “General Lifestyle Survey of the Office of National Statistics of the British Government 2009”. This study demonstrated for the umpteenth time, a much higher use of legal drugs compared to that of illicit drugs.

The Dutch government started changing their liberal policy on dagga in 2010 by closing down coffee shops (about 43 in Amsterdam alone), forbidding foreigners to go to coffee shops, closing down coffee shops a certain distance from schools etc. The Dutch minister of Health and Justice justified the new trend when he admitted that they had been unable to root out the criminal element in the dagga trade when he stated: “…This law will put an end to the nuisance of criminality associated with “coffee shops” and “drugs trafficking”.

The argument that legalizing dagga will lead to a glut of people growing it for profit, which Buzz rejects, is exactly one of the reasons why the city of Los Angeles in California decided earlier this year to close down all (approximately 900 of them) pharmacies that sold dagga.

The whole idea that we should legalize harmful social practices that we have failed to get rid of while illegal is absurd, to say the least. Throughout the ages virtually no human vices have been completely prevented by making them illegal. But that does not mean we are considering legalizing theft or fraud, or the abuse of women, or even murder for that matter.

One of the most condemning facts against the legalization of dagga is the relationship between schizophrenia and dagga use, which has become dominant in medical literature over the past few years. There is no such association with tobacco smoke and psychosis associated with alcohol abuse only develops after long periods of alcohol addiction.

Dope smokers have been found to inhale deeper than cigarette smokers and hold smoke in the lungs for longer before they exhale. Ammonia levels were 20 times higher in marijuana smoke than in tobacco smoke. Hydrogen cyanide, nitric oxide and certain aromatic amines occurred at levels 3-5 times higher in marijuana smoke. Cannabis smoke contains seven times more tar and carbon monoxide than cigarette smoke.

One is forced to conclude that Buzz’ view represents one of those extreme views that is not based on scientific data, but is rather one of the view points of a small subgroup of society using thumb sucked statistics that suit them.

Doctors for Life International, represents more than 1400 medical doctors and specialists, three-quarters of whom practice in South Africa. Since 1991 DFL has been actively promoting sound science in the medical profession and health care that is safe and efficient for all South Africans.

For more information visit: www.doctorsforlife.co.za

My Turn

Dear DFL,

Thank you for joining the discussion regarding cannabis and its place in our society. I did not expect a religious organisation such as yours to judge others for also making an adult choice about their personal lifestyle, but let’s focus on the topic at hand. The one study you’ve cited has nothing to do with cannabis. That you would compare the legalisation of cannabis with legalising fraud, the abuse of woman or even murder is absurd, to say the least.

Please share with us one single scientific study concluding that cannabis use should be illegal, or how the potential harms of ingesting cannabis are anywhere near as damaging as a criminal record or imprisonment?

You comments regarding the USA and Netherlands conveniently omit that they are in no way removing the rights of these citizens to ingest cannabis. You’ve also omitted that Netherlands’ cannabis use is lower than the European average and much lower than that of the USA, which spends at least R75 billion per year on prohibition. Regarding the US, Federal promises of property seizures, tax evasion and prosecution of medical cannabis stores play a large part. A pro-cannabis policy voted in by the majority of the State is now being stomped on. I don’t blame the State for trying to protect its citizens from Federal persecution. Goodbye tax revenue. What about the 3 States putting legalization to the vote this November, with much public support, or Portugal’s decade of documented success with decriminalization?

You glide over legal alcohol and legal tobacco as if they don’t kill millions of people a year. The UN estimates there are as many as 224 million global cannabis users, yet we still wait in anticipation for stories of all the cannabis overdoses and victims. Responsible use is something that certainly needs to be discussed, especially with teenagers. Much the same as the sex talk. Let’s remove the stigma and the misconception that cannabis is a hard drug. People should not be fooled into thinking that heroin, tik, crack or even alcohol and tobacco are as forgiving as cannabis.

The relationship between schizophrenia and cannabis use has not made it from theory to fact. The theory is also inconsistent with the huge global upswing of cannabis use and the decades long 0% increase in schizophrenia rates. Peanut allergies are at the same percentage, yet we don’t condemn this “harmful social practice”. There are even studies suggesting that cannabis benefits schizophrenics.

Lead researcher of the largest study of its kind, which consisted of over two thousand people and was sponsored by the US National Institutes of Health’s National Institute on Drug Abuse, Dr Donald Tashkin, stated:

“We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use”. “What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect”.

There are even scientific studies concluding that cannabis is safer than most off-the-shelf substances.

“Buzz’ view represents Prohibition of cannabis represents one of those extreme views that is not based on scientific data, but is rather one of the view points of a small subgroup of society using thumb sucked statistics that suit them”.

Cannabis prohibition results in thousands of deaths due to its illegal trade and police crossfire, fuels organised crime, exposes cannabis users to hard drugs, wastes police resources and does more harm than good.

We’ve had this counterproductive, misguided policy for a century. It’s time for a second opinion.

P.S. We forgot to even discuss the hemp and medical benefits.

Buzz

Related Posts with Thumbnails

About the Author: Buzz

Aspiring cannabis connoisseur who is unable to contain his frequently imploding thoughts, therefore sharing them with you on his quest for enlightenment, or The Force, whichever comes first. Buzz is also is in charge of the day to day runnings at the BTL Headshop.


92 Responses so far

Want to say something?


  1. hippo for 20ing says:

    I’ve read another article from doctors for life that was published on DC face book page, the article didn’t even bother to hide the blatant lies

    http://gatewaynews.co.za/2012/04/27/dagga-is-a-danger-to-health-dont-legalise-it-doctors-for-life/

    It scares me that a medical doctor can be this badly informed, he should have his licence removed for publishing complete lies like this, it scares me! I am worried now that other doctors are this badly educated. this kind of article can’t go unpunished it creates so much harm when one individual with a doctorate publishes these kind of lies. It is actually dangerous and creates confusion among doctors that don’t have a ulterior motive and want to take proper care of their patients, doctors that base their consultations on actual fact and not on the opinions of religious institutions!

    • Buzz says:

      Yip Hippo it’s very scary.

      These subjective and unsubstantiated opinions from DFL muddy the water on what should be a scientific and evidence based policy.

  2. 4sak3n says:

    If one were suitably motivated, the article that hippo linked us to would make be-yoooooo-tiful ammunition for exposing their half-truths and spin-doctoring.
    Whilst most of the facts which are listed in the press release that Buzz references are, when taken literally, true, they have been distorted and misrepresented in the analysis. It is a classic case of spin-doctoring. Buzz did an admirable and bang-up job of refuting them however, as with most spin-doctoring and mud-slinging, it is pretty difficult to definitely use them as proof that the writer is trying to mislead you. Refuting analyses (especially ones born of a faulty paradigm) is much harder than refuting cold, hard facts.
    However the press release that hippo links to is so full of outright lies, fictionalised findings and complete and utter trash designed solely to poison people’s minds with blatant deception that it is easily revealed as the fraudulent con-job that it is. All that is required is a link to one or more reputable scientific studies definitely disproving their bullshit and they don’t have a leg to stand on. If they wish to craft their own rebuttal the ONLY thing that will suffice are their original references for the source of their “facts” (which are conveniently left out of the press release in the first place …) and I think we all know that that isn’t going to happen.
    If one were a political creature one might also use the untruth of the latter (referenced in this thread, not chronologically) press release to discredit the former by shedding doubt on the credibility, veracity and truthfulness of the men and women behind the press releases of Doctors For Life. Of course, some might see this as another form of mud-slinging. Caveat emptor.
    My point is that if people are aware that this organisation is willing to outright lie … and we CAN irrefutably prove this … to pursue their agenda then they will be less inclined to accept the rest of their more-difficult-to-disprove-lies. It is a classic case of giving them enough rope to hang themselves with … as long as one is willing to overlook the causal paradox inherent in applying that metaphor specifically to our little situation.

    • Buzz says:

      You’ve hit the nail on the head 4sak3n.

      DFL is consistently blowing hot air while leaving out the “source of their “facts” (which are conveniently left out of the press release in the first place …)”

  3. The Organic Militia says:

    These are their views on cloning:
    “We at DFL believe that only God can and should create life. It is our opinion that the practice of cloning is man’s attempt to play God. Creating artificial life interferes with God’s divine plan for creation. DFL opposes all forms of cloning and will continue to work through legal and governmental channels to bring it to an end.”

    Religious nutters, you can’t fight them Buzz.In their eyes they have been sent by god to remove a plant sent by the devil. Everyday I show restraint by not attacking Christians on their retarded views, why don’t they just stay out of the marijuana debate. We can’t take them all at once, the religion problem can be solved after legalizing cannabis.

    • Buzz says:

      That they are Organic Militia.

      It’s sad how this group with good intentions probably do make a positive difference though their work, yet take extreme counterproductive and idealistic views on many social aspects of our society.

      The religion discussion is no man’s land for me. I will say this though. Fundamentalists such as DFL are a poor reflection of what most Christians are probably like. I respect the faith it takes to follow a religion. I however feel little more than contempt for people who use their religion to impose their subjective moral beliefs on others.

  4. Buzz says:

    If anyone feels like addressing the matter directly with DFL or challenging them to put their scientific studies where their mouth is, here’s their FB page

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/doctors4life

  5. MagicAttack says:

    I really think its up to a pressure group like Norml to back you up Buzz by sending emails and letters demanding the real “facts” and exposing the lies.

    Read something interesting this morning…side effects – Nausea , Diarrhoea , Headache , Dizziness , Palpitations and heart burn may occure , Gastro intestinal bleeding and skin rash may occur. The safety in pregnancy has not been established.

    Where did this come from ?? The back of a cough medicine (mucospect) recommended for two year olds bought over the counter.

    • @Magic….the pressure is slowly being applied in for the form of polite discussion at this point. A fledgling discussion for South Africa. The Daggaa Couple are well aware that the D4L stance on prohibition is so far removed from ours it’s difficult to know where to start the discussion at times!
      As soon as we see a dis-service to the plant we write to the ‘editor’ of the relevant publication. We suggest they are doing a huge diservice to their readers by printing untruths and politely ask for any references….We never get a reply or a change of view!…baby steps.
      Misguided as their stance of dagga may be, if i were in desparate need of an operation and the D4L were the only choice – I’m sure they’d save my life. I’d hate to be medicated by them though….
      Jules

  6. hippo for 20ing says:

    can you publish a link to a list of the doctors that agree with these views, i wonder how many of their members actually support these fictional views of this religious nutter group. and they say they have 1300 members, how many of those members are qualified doctors and how many of those doctors are actually practicing medicine?

  7. Princess Puff says:

    Good for you Buzz!
    In the immortal words of Bob Marley “Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights!”

  8. Louis says:

    Hi Buzz.

    You are sure determined to get the point across. I see you have even resorted to defacing another organisations logo. So what drives you – the desire to help others with a drug that most medical professionals are opposed to – or is it simply because you need it as a crutch to cope with the real world out there?

    I’m sorry for the delay in posting this but I had some work to do – in the real world.

    • Hey Louis.

      Where did you get that most medical professionals are opposed to Cannabis? More thumb-sucking? If your statement were true, then why do the US government hold patents on every cannabinoid? Why are there legal, natural cannabis products like Sativex, which is basically just hash oil in a spray can? I would argue that the medical community (who actually follow current science and don’t base their medical viewpoints on religion) recognize the medicinal benefits of cannabis and understand that it is far less harmful than many of the legal drugs and products currently out there.

      Again, we ask you to please share with us, just one, single scientific study concluding that cannabis use should be illegal, or how the potential harms of ingesting cannabis are anywhere near as damaging as a criminal record or imprisonment?

      Thanks for your comment.

      • The very first link in your list of search results states that:

        - Cannabis has been used for medicinal purposes for thousands of years.

        - Commercially available cannabinoids, such as dronabinol and nabilone, are approved for the treatment of cancer-related side effects.

        - Cannabinoids may have benefits in the treatment of cancer-related side effects.

      • And the second link states that:

        - Cannabis and cannabinoids have been studied in the laboratory and the clinic for relief of pain, nausea and vomiting, anxiety, and loss of appetite (see Question 6 and Question 7).

        - Cannabis and cannabinoids may have benefits in treating the symptoms of cancer or the side effects of cancer therapies (see Question 7).

        - Cannabis has been shown to kill cancer cells in the laboratory and to affect the immune system.

        Thanks for the links bud!

      • And here’s another goodie, also from one of the links you posted.

        “Because cannabis smoke contains many of the same substances as tobacco smoke, there are concerns about how smoked cannabis affects the lungs. A study of over 5,000 men and women without cancer over a period of 20 years found that smoking tobacco was linked with some loss of lung function but that occasional and low use of cannabis was not linked with loss of lung function.”

      • Alex says:

        I just laughed so hard!!!

        Louis,

        A) You didn’t even give us a direct link to a study.

        B) All of the links I clicked on (a total of 3) were pro-marijuana, so whos side are you on anyway?

        C) It such a pity marijuana doesn’t prevent hair-loss, I’m sure you’d be on it like a fat kid in a candy store.

    • Buzz says:

      Hi Louis,
      I see that you found your way here from the DFL FB page. Looks like we hit a nerve.
      What drives me?
      Millions of innocent people being treated as criminals for ingesting a non-physically addictive substance that is categorically safer than legal intoxicants, especially that one that kills millions of people a year and is promoted by your religion … alcohol. Yet you don’t find me beating on your door about your personal choice of religion or intoxicants.
      “a drug that most medical professionals are opposed to” hey? Care to share the survey or study for this opinion that “most of the scientific folks are against it”? The link you have provided is regarding research into the medical benefits of cannabis. Is this not the same Institute of Health who sponsored the study I’ve cited in the article? Swing and a miss there Louis, might want to read the evidence next time.

      Food for thought, “Making people criminals for taking psychoactive substances is in itself criminal, for one is dealing with, at worst, a vice but not a crime.” – JP van Niekerk, Managing Editor – South African Medical Journal

      “Judge not, and you will not be judged”. I’ll do you the courtesy of not judging you as you have judged me for making an adult choice about my personal lifestyle, and will leave you to continue living in the ivory tower you call “the real world”.

      Better luck next time Louis

      • Buzz says:

        But wait there’s more!

        Please share with us one single scientific study concluding that cannabis use should be illegal, or how the potential harms of ingesting cannabis are anywhere near as damaging as a criminal record or imprisonment?

        I’m not holding my breath for a response:o

      • Louis Erasmus says:

        Hey Buzz To the folk who get treated like criminals for puffing weed – I got a simple answer. Don’t smoke the stuff! The only reason its such a big deal for you and your cronies is cos you likes to smoke it! Remember – 10 percnt of you guys are addicted to it! http://www.harmonygroup.co.za/addiction-2/marijuana-a-real-addiction/ Regarding alcohol – There are many Christians who don’t drink at all. Like dagga – alcohol can be addictive and so most churches use grape juice when they have communion. Lest keep religion out of the discussion. You were the first to start quoting scripture at me.
        Regarding the scientific evidence against your opiate its all over the scientific journals – detailed scientific studies. As they say – you can lead a horse to the water but you can’t make him drink – especially if the horse can’t see for all the smoke! Oh I see there is a new one just out: http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/11417/20120809/marijuana-brain-damage-memory-learning-drug-habit-addiction.htm however the best reason for me to avoid the stuff is the example you and your friends set!

      • Buzz says:

        Hi Louis,

        Clearly you do not live in the real world and seem hell bent on showing off how morally superior you are while you het high on another hit of the Holy Spirit.

        The rehab website you’ve linked does nothing more than demonstrate how people can form habits with things that they enjoy doing or consuming. The ambiguous brain damage study that you’ve cited is a poky little study of 59 cannabis abusers, for which there was no quality controlled cannabis. Besides, you would be hard pressed to find anything which if consumed in excess does not cause some sort of harm. Even grape juice.
        http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=51550

        You’ve repeatedly avoided explaining how cannabis is more damaging than its prohibition or what is criminal about adults using it.
        By supporting cannabis prohibition, you support:

        - Organised crime profiting from cannabis and thereby funding hard drugs and human trafficking
        - Death of thousands of people in the illicit trade of cannabis
        - Murder, rape, abuse, etc. as police catch harmless cannabis users instead actual criminals
        - Deepening of social wounds as tax resources are being spent on imprisoning cannabis users instead of building homes, schools, hospitals, etc.
        - The imprisonment of millions of adults for doing nothing more than “puffing weed”

        This blood is on your hands.

        I honestly don’t anymore time to waste on those at the bottom of the objectivity and common sense barrel. You are a poor example of the Christians I know and love, I will ask them to pray for your forgiveness as you clearly know not what you do.

        Bye bye Louis the fly

    • Tommie says:

      Cannabis are used as medicine for more than 5000 years.
      Do not believe all the old propaganda about Cannabis. Do your own research and think for yourself. Have a look at http://marijuanamovie.org/

  9. etok411 says:

    Nice one Buzz! It’s about time these people get fought against. All you hear is nothing but lies, these doctors have only one reason to keep this illegal and thats to keep their pockets full while innocent people suffer. I read on their site earlier about cannabis and it was a joke. The more people wake up the more lies people are going to see, soon their trusts will be broken. Who are these people to think that chemo is the only treatment for cancer, its never ever worked! (few people have been cleared from cancer but nobody can prove it was the chemo) most people just end up dying.

    They claim theres no medical benefits with cannabis…….. with a statement like that can we really trust these people? PATHETIC! It’s the number 1 cure for nausea known to man, is that not a benefit?

  10. etok411 says:

    usertest1 said:
    Im Glad you asked. Here are 1700 reasons why most of the scientific folks are against it: http://search2.google.cit.nih.gov/search?site=NIH_Master&client=NIHNEW_frontend&proxystylesheet=NIHNEW_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&filter=0&getfields=*&proxyreload=1&q=cannabis&btnG.x=0&btnG.y=0&btnG=search

    DUH!!!!!!!! its a government website! While you looking on USA sites ask them why they patented the plant

  11. Mark says:

    Louis, I’m sorry to say my man but what you just did has to be THE single biggest fail, in the history of the internet…

    Typical uneducated response we have all come to expect, you went and searched cannabis and sent us the result. It just so happens that there are studies right there showing you that cannabis has medicinal benefits, and you blatantly ignore it? I’m pretty sure you didn’t even read a single study in that search.

    Your entire view of cannabis is based on out-dated false information. If you had bothered to read your 1700 reasons why cannabis is illegal search, even you would know that.

  12. MagicAttack says:

    Nausea and vomiting
    •Delta-9-THC taken by mouth: Two cannabinoid drugs approved in the United States are available under the names dronabinol and nabilone. Both dronabinol and nabilone are approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for the treatment of chemotherapy -related nausea and vomiting in patients who have not responded to standard therapy. Many clinical trials have shown that both dronabinol and nabilone worked as well as or better than some of the weaker FDA-approved drugs to relieve nausea and vomiting. Newer drugs given for chemotherapy-related nausea have not been directly compared with Cannabis or cannabinoids in cancer patients.

    Its actually super packed with gems like this

  13. 420friend says:

    woops louis haha we should link this to there page so all people on facebook that like them will see this!

  14. chil_e_g says:

    Hey Louis

    Real world!!!!!!

    I work 18 hours a day, employ quite a few people and smoke about 7 joints a day, for the last 20 years, I live on the beach and I know its real becuase I have swum in the see while you are working your arse off in the real world.

  15. Van Wijk says:

    420friend said:

    Speechless? :D

  16. hippo for 20ing says:

    I still want to know who are all these doctors that support this radical religious view. I will not call it a radical medical/scientific view because that is a lie like the ones in this article

    http://gatewaynews.co.za/2012/04/27/dagga-is-a-danger-to-health-dont-legalise-it-doctors-for-life/

    I want these doctors to be named and shamed for supporting this. I am a customer of the healthcare system and these doctors that support these radical religious views will not be seeing my business again!

    I am sure that all 1300 members of D4L do not support the radical religious views of a single nutter.

  17. Johan says:

    I found it interesting to read Dr van Eeden’s articles, and reading the comments following his writings, especially those on this page. Leaving the facts and arguments aside, I can’t help to notice how personal the pro-legalisation group take any opposition to their views. Unlike adults discussing a matter, they insult and try to pull Dr van Eeden apart with their words. Since when is it wrong for doctors to promote health?

    Dr van Eeden’s (or DFL) stance is no isolated opinion and neither are the studies he refers to unverifiable. It is normal (and expected) for the medical fraternity to discourage the use of drugs of abuse. Medicine and science is not based on opinion but peer reviewed verifiable and repeatable studies that has the same outcomes. It’s no use in quoting isolated case studies as they appear on the internet or come available through the media. Medical journals and international reputable medical associations like the NIH, publish literally hundreds of studies on the topic. For every one study saying that dagga has benefits, there are about 10 that says it does not. Other medical associations that discourage cannabis smoking include the American Glaucoma Society (AGS) ”Scientists at Sweden’s Karolinska Institute, American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP), the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP), the National Multiple Sclerosis Society (NMSS), the British Medical Association (BMA), the American Cancer Society (ACS) and many more. Go to their websites and read for yourself.
    The reason why cannabis is still illegal in the USA federally and why petitions to downgrade cannabis from a Schedule 1 drug have failed, was because of lack of evidence supporting the calims that it has medical benefits. “Each of the doctors testifying on behalf of NORML (the organization that lead on of the petitions) claimed that his opinion was based on scientific studies, yet with one exception, none could identify, under oath, the scientific studies they relied on,” DEA Administrator Thomas A. Constantine remarked. You can gladly check on this as well. Use google.

    It is also important to note that there two different issues at hand here i.e. smoking crude dagga as a medicine as opposed to extracting certain molecules from the plant and testing it for possible medical purposes. Those proposing legalisation mostly want to smoke dagga (not extract the molecule properties as with normal medicines). Secondly, with every medical drug that is patented and approved the considerations should always be: does the beneficial effect outweigh the counter negative and harmful side effects. Smoking has NEVER been a medically approved delivery method by ANY reputable medical association given the carcinogenic side effects. Its just absurd.

    As one person said, if you or your loved one has a rare or serious medical condition, you would want to look for the best specialist that can help you, him or her. If that doctor would advise to stop eating certain foods in order to maybe avoid cancer, cholesterol or to save your(even if it is the foods they love!), most people would accept that. But sadly you do get doctors that will just tell you what you want to hear. Wouldnt you rather want to know that you have cancer then him telling you, “dont worry, you are fine, just do what you like?” There are many so-called scientists and academics that are willing to defend dagga/marijuana or cannabis. Especially in the USA where it has become such a hot topic.

    In the 50-60′s some doctors even claimed that smoking tobacco was good for your throat etc. Today it’s undeniable that the dangers of smoking tobacco, outweighs any hint of a positive effect some might claim tobacco to have. That’s why our laws are becoming more strict, not more lenient. The same applies to alcohol. Governments and society is probably more aware of its harmfulness than ever before and that’s why they are developing new laws on alcohol advertising and labelling.

    One person requested scientific proof that using dagga is less harmful then a prison sentence. But therein lies the answer and its simple. Dagga is currently illegal. So, don’t smoke dagga, then you won’t go to prison. Regardless, I am in full support of diversion assistance programs as an alternative to prison, for those who break the law but need help.

    No doubt most of you will at some stage end up in hospital , a clinic or a medical practice where a “Dr van Eeden” will be the one who will try to ease your suffering, cure your disease or perhaps even save your life. Shouldnt you rather listen and reason with him like an adult, rather than reverting to insults?

    • Buzz says:

      Dear Johan,

      Your comment appears to be lost in a world of idealism and limited to the realm of medical applications.

      Preach bigotry from your ivory tower as much as you wish, this is not about medical marijuana. This is a human rights issue for those who ingest cannabis for whatever reason.

      The reality of the matter is that cannabis is here to stay, the horse bolted thousands of years ago.
      “Dagga is currently illegal. So, don’t smoke dagga, then you won’t go to prison.” Did you support Apartheid simply because it was legal?

      There seems to be this perception that cannabis and its use can somehow be eradicated from the face of the Earth, yet after a century of fierce prohibition its use is higher than ever. Why? Because people do have vices whether it is food, alcohol, tobacco, Facebook, religion, etc and cannabis is logically a very popular choice due it not being physically addictive and it being nowhere near as damaging as the legal alternatives.
      For all your claims you have supplied zero evidence. The witch hunt on tobacco began in the 50’s; the witch hunt on cannabis began at the turn of the 20th century and we still wait with anticipation for an evidence based reason substantiating its prohibition. All of your points have originally been refuted in the article. No one is saying cannabis is completely harmless. We are saying that the price we pay for its prohibition is too dear. Many more lives are ruined by prohibition than even the most extreme speculated health risks of cannabis could ruin, not forgetting the opportunity cost of prohibition.
      Between DFL and those who have jumped to its defense, I am yet to see anyone provide some evidence refuting the points I have raised in the article. Yes, some may have chosen to “insult and try to pull Dr van Eeden apart with their words. Since when is it wrong for doctors to promote health?”. You assume that we are not paying for cannabis prohibition with death. Your glasses look awfully rose tinted.

      Perhaps you would dare move past the surface of the discussion and cut to the heart of the matter. Please enlighten us as to what is in fact criminal about adults using cannabis?

      P.S. “Dr van Eeden’s (or DFL) stance is no isolated opinion and neither are the studies he refers to unverifiable.” You may want to read the DFL press release and my response again. Dr van Eeden has referred to no cannabis studies whatsoever, where as I have.

  18. Blazed says:

    http://gatewaynews.co.za/2012/04/27/dagga-is-a-danger-to-health-dont-legalise-it-doctors-for-life/#comment-3308

    Not one comment defending the article on there, doubt they will do it here. Sad that these fucks are misinforming some of the equally uneducated individuals on the internet…

  19. mreowpower says:

    Yeh because in the real world steve jobs didn’t smoke weed and apple was never created…sorry to say but in the real world you just made yourself look like the biggest tool…amongst other things

  20. 4sak3n says:

    usertest1 said:
    In the 50-60′s some doctors even claimed that smoking tobacco was good for your throat etc. Today it’s undeniable that the dangers of smoking tobacco, outweighs any hint of a positive effect some might claim tobacco to have. That’s why our laws are becoming more strict, not more lenient. The same applies to alcohol. Governments and society is probably more aware of its harmfulness than ever before and that’s why they are developing new laws on alcohol advertising and labelling.

    Funny how they didn’t have any scientific basis for their recommendations then either. Kind of remind you of something?
    If you don’t, I shall spell it out for you: in the 50-60′s doctors fed false information to the public which had no basis in scientific fact. When studies were conducted and the true effects were discovered this was (eventually) released to the public at large and laws changed.
    Again, kind of remind you of something?
    Ah … screw it, I’ll oblige you again: this is the same situation except, now instead of doctors lying about something being bad they are lying about something good for you being being worse than it is. Symmetry is fun.
    I seriously can’t decide which is worse: trying to make people’s health worse with an insidiously dangerous product or trying to prevent people’s health and psychological state from improving by deliberately preventing them from taking valid and scientifically proven medicine.
    What the hell happened to the Hippocratic Oath?!?
    We’ll give those bygone physicians the benefit of the doubt and assume that they didn’t know any better. But I’d love to see someone try to use that defence today.
    Oh well, at least in that example the truth was eventually realised and laws changed. I guess that there is hope after all.
    P.S. If you can’t see the humour in a doctor providing the perfect example of doctors not always being right about their beliefs about drugs or substances and being open minded about making mistakes … well, that explains a lot then doesn’t it? ;)
    P.P.S. I’ll say it again: give them enough rope to hang themselves and …

  21. mreowpower says:

    My step mother is very connected in the health dept, and has been offered a very lucrative position, she will say it straight up “I don’t smoke cannabis, I never have and probably never will but to tell adults they cannot indulge in an intoxicant of their choosing because in my eyes is wrong is ridiculous we are the government not your parents” she firmly believes the war on drugs has failed…HARD. With regard to DFL ide rather not express her personal views on a public forum, but for me it seems like we have a group of doctors living in a banggat dorpie somewhere in pretoria that are so shit scared of any medical change to better man kind that they create a religious dogma around anything THEY don’t agree with (and their financial advisers), who knows maybe they will ride down to cape town on horse back and demand we accept Christ God as the one and only God or else we are heathens and heretics and must die. PS: they say they refuse to believe cannabis has medical benefits that its a crazy thought…yet they believe some dude can be everywhere at the same time you can’t see him but he’s always there, he created the world in 7 days and his sons a zombie as well as listen to your problems but never reply nor do jack shit about them also he loves you unconditionally..on the condition you accept him as the one true god and devote your life to him because if not then fuck you you’re gonna burn mother fucker …does anyone else see the irony in this?

  22. MagicAttack says:

    What really grinds me about people like Johan is that they seem to forget we have been fighting this war for alot longer than the one day him or other people like him actually decide to google a couple random facts on the internet…. For example you state alot of society’s and organisations are against cannabis ie: American Cancer Society where nowhere on there site does it say anything about being againt cannabis in fact more quite the opposite.
    In regards to professions like pediatrics commenting on cannabis its like asking weight watchers to comment on fast food. I mean i dont want my two year old smoking cannabis does anyone…That is how absurd your arguement is.
    We get irritated and take it personal because people such as yourself pretend to be educated in a subject they no nothing about except for the propoganda they have been fed and when asked to produce evidence it never seems to emerge and when it does its not researched often ending up that the link given is actually pro-cannibis???
    So I think its fair that people with no respect for the subject get treated with no respect.
    Then to top it of you quote people like Thomas A. Constantine who is the watchdog for the old Clinton regime and is the head of the DEA. Imagine there was no war on drugs what would he do for a living???? You think he is going to say anything postivive about anything that could affect his job??? Your arguement is old your way of thinking is dated your attitude is negative and your links make you look stupid.
    Prove us wrong or at least make a proper attempt…

  23. etok411 says:

    @ Johan – Have you ever used cannabis?

  24. Alex says:

    I would just like to point out some facebook stats here quick:
    D4L: 69 Likes
    The Dagga Couple: 11 392
    BelowTheLion: 3 386

    And just imagine if weed was legal what the likes would be on the latter two.

    Do you know how many people wont click like purely based on the fact that a friends parent, their parent, an associate or their boss might see it?!

    • Alex says:

      I laughed my ass off when i saw their facebook page only had 69 likes… and yet they are representing over 1300 doctors and what not, SURELY more than 69 of them have facebook.

  25. hippo for 20ing says:

    there are 1300 members of D4L but how many of those 1300 are doctors remains a mystery and how many of those doctors publicly support this radical religious view also remains a mystery

  26. hippo for 20ing says:

    from now on i will ask any healthcare professional if they are affiliated with Doctors for life and if they are i will take my business elsewhere, and i suggest you do the same. the only way to stop this kind of propaganda is to hit them where it hurts!

  27. Buzz says:

    Thank you folks for sharing soft and strong words regarding DFL.

    DFL certainly is a box of bold statements and little evidence substantiating cannabis prohibition

    You’ve probably noticed as well that their supporters also have much bark but no bite.
    For an organization who claims to be pro-life, they certainly seem hell bent on continuing a policy that kills and maims millions of people due to prohibiting a non-lethal plant. But irony is often wasted on hypocrites.

    Freeeeeeeeeedom

  28. mreowpower says:

    People like you give me hope for the future

  29. hippo for 20ing says:

    Buzz for President!

  30. mreowpower says:

    Buzz for Jesus! Maybe DFL would listen then ;)

  31. 420friend says:

    hahahaha buzz for Jesus and president! :D

  32. ecgrow says:

    Thank goodness Buzz is on our side :)

    Big respect man… BIG BIG RESPECT!

  33. Dan says:

    yea just want to chip in here too – Buzz: Mad respect for your work dude, keep in pushing! We will be behind you all the way!

  34. mreowpower says:

    Presidential Jesus

  35. bud-lover says:

    Great article as usual buzz. To be honest I find it hilarious that they are making these ridiculous claims, while you have provided links to validated studies in all of your articles they cannot seem to provide a single one. They claim that we are “a small subgroup of society using thumb sucked statistics” but in reality it appears that they are the ones thumb sucking. Very entertaining. Keep up the good work and much respect man.

  36. Smokey McPot says:

    Im not sure if these articles have any thing in common
    http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana.html
    If so my bad
    But ya

  37. cheese420 says:

    Woah now this post has definitely been one for the records hey….heated as can be..

    A nerve was definitely struck with those doctors and they just ego tripping not able to realize the truth in front of them…its so aggravating reading what they have to say knowing full well if they actually would smoke some that their opinion would change immediately.

    be easy

  38. Johan says:

    Australian scientists have verified again that persistent heavy marijuana use damages the brain’s memory and learning capacity. Researchers also showed that the earlier people abused cannabis, the worse the damage. Scientists from Melbourne’s Murdoch Childrens Research Institute (MCRI), Melbourne University and Wollongong University used Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) to scan the brains of 59 people who had been using marijuana for 15 years on average. The scans showed changes to the volume, strength and integrity of white matter, the brain’s complex wiring system. Long-term heavy cannabis users showed disruptions in the white matter fibres. There was a reduction in the volume of white matter of more than 80% in the users studied.”
    http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/11417/20120809/marijuana-brain-damage-memory-learning-drug-habit-addiction.htm

    • bud-lover says:

      Hi Johan

      Interesting that such a bold claim can be made on a study that only used 59 people. It is also interesting that marijuana use has been recorded for thousands of years and that since the implementation of the prohibition there has been a significant increase in marijuana smokers, yet over the last century or so of prohibition there has not been any increase in patients checked into mental institutions for brain damage caused by marijuana alone.

      I refer to the question that Buzz gave us, plus a few of my own additions. was the marijuana provided by a quality controlled source? Did the 59 subjects use only marijuana, or did they also use tobacco, alcohol, any prescription medication along side the marijuana or any other illegal narcotics?

      This study is interesting, and it appears that the main concern is adolescents using marijuana over a pro-longed period of time, but some food for thought. In a world where since the implementation of the prohibition marijuana use has gone up by more than ten fold, yet there is still not a single case of an overdose or death related to marijuana only smokers in almost ten thousand years of known use, would it not be more logical for consenting adults who choose to smoke marijuana recreationally or for medicinal purposes to be able to purchase it from a licensed and controlled dispensary, ensuring that there will be no added adulterants or chemicals, similar to the situation of cigarettes or alcohol? Because I know for a fact that if my 15 year old cousin goes to a liquor store and tries to purchase a six pack he will be turned away without question, but if he were to go to the dealers house down the road he would not.

      • bud-lover says:

        But there’s more, would it not be more rational for us as a society to decide what age is appropriate for our children to begin using marijuana or would you prefer to leave that decision in the hands of hardened criminals and drug dealers as it has been since the prohibition began?

  39. Buzz says:

    Hi Johan,

    Let’s apply some critical thinking.

    Was the cannabis supplied by a controlled quality source? No.
    Was the study peer reviewed? No.
    Were these cannabis users or abusers? 59 abusers.

    Maybe you’ve heard of that saying, too much of a good thing…..

    Here’s a study regarding cannabis causing new brain cell growth
    http://www.jci.org/articles/view/25509

    We’re not talking about giving cannabis to children as your study references early use, this is about adult use.
    Motor vehicles and falling are the leading causes of brain damage, are you saying that they should also be illegal?
    “Researchers also showed that the earlier people abused cannabis, the worse the damage”. Why do you then support prohibition which is the one policy proven to increase use? Why not support progressive policies proven to decrease use, such as Portugal and Netherlands?

    I repeat “Perhaps you would dare move past the surface of the discussion and cut to the heart of the matter. Please enlighten us as to what is in fact criminal about adults using cannabis?”

  40. mreowpower says:

    Agreed, if regulated they could control who purchases it unlike if prohibited where you have to go to a dealer who will sell to ANYONE you don’t know if there are additives in the weed you don’t know what else the dealers selling where as if its a dispensery it will be clean cannabis and not just in the plant form extracts, in foods, thc liquids etc which are not harmful in the least and contain purely medicinal properties. Personally I say 18 be the legal age when you’re an adult and can make adult decisions. So its okay for 16 year olds to smoke cigarettes but not for full grown men to smoke weed. Its a plant bro it really won’t bite…unless its well grown ;)

  41. bud-lover says:

    And God saith, ‘Lo, I have given to you every herb sowing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree sowing seed, to you it is for food. (Genesis 1:29)

    And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons. (1 Timothy 4:1)

    Sorry to go biblical but if one chose to believe this what does that make DFL?

  42. andre says:

    Buzz – I suggest taking your argument to people who won’t flat out ignore you, most doctors have no interest in the legalization of marijuana simply because of the medicinal uses of the herb. They make money of their prescriptions from pharmaceutical companies, so what you’re actually doing is arguing with a fat stack of cash. Regardless of their educational backgrounds and religious views they will always choose the fat stack of cash instead of listening to logic and reason.

    I was diagnosed with severe depression 5 years ago, I was on anti-depressants and xanor or something like that, was a really strong pain killer. 2 months later I took the meds back to the psychologist and told him to stuff it where the sun doesn’t shine because it destroyed my personality… I tried a joint for a 1st time that afternoon and here I am, as happy as can be ^_^ no depression, no stress headaches VUALA.

    • Buzz says:

      Hi Andre,

      Thank you for your comment.

      I wouldn’t have gone barking up this tree had DFL not taken a swipe.

      Glad to read that you found relief in cannabis:)

  43. etok411 says:

    @ Louis your logic as a doctor amazes me, is that seriously the best evidence you can come up with or are you just blind? The comments were very interesting in that article and should have read them before posting that link. Don’t come here and advise us not to smoke or use anything especially if you know FUCKALL about it, YOU LOOK LIKE A TOOL!!!

    I will be exposing you guys, I will also be showing everybody i know what a joke you and your tiny uneducated group really are.I have quite a few contacts in the health industry and now very curious to see what they say about your little group. I can not believe you a doctor…… I hope most people see the greed in guys, you could not give a shit about ones well being its all about $$$ for you guys and your argument on here shows that very clearly.

    You know my doctor insisted that my gf must never touch cannabis, he must have asked me about 5 times if she did(she didnt smoke often at all at the time) and said straight away that she needed medication for bipolar and at the end of the day he was just trying to make his buddies rich by sending her for check ups and taking the risk of trying out all those UNNATURAL medications. Lucky for her she had a smoke before the time and realised how much it helped her, 2 years later she is better than ever in her life. I alone have not had a cold or flu in over 5 years now and i smoke everyday, can you point out the problems to me? Besides not coming into your offices and feeding people like you money

    Now i REAL doctor will not fight these experiences we have told you about, a REAL doctor will look into it and make sure he can offer the best help available to his or hers patients!!!!

  44. hippo for 20ing says:

    i work with allot of people and in my job i refer people to doctors for checkups or health statements and since i read the article from doctors for life i have started screening our regular doctors we send our clients to and if a doctor is affiliated with doctors for life i will find a alternate doctor. luckily for our regular doctors/healthcare practitioners none of them are. i have yet to find one of these cult doctors/medical practitioner so i can take business away from them and i look forward to the day i do!!!!

  45. MagicAttack says:

    Louis if you where in front of me I would kick you in the balls for being so close minded but seeing as your not I will point one thing out…you talk of all these scientific journals and then post a link to what has to be one of the worst studies ever done but I suppose you think its fine that only 59 people where used with no indication as to what determines “heavy” use. Also where they all smoking it????Using a vaporiser?? Where did they get the cannabis from??? Also most of these people started smoking before the age of 18???? That makes this test conclusive ???? What other effects did the long term cannabis users exibit ie: increased lung capacity ( thats a fact ) no lung cancer , avoiding confrontation , less hair loss ??? Oh they werent testing that they where trying to make a specific point???
    Numbers and figures can be twisted to tell alot of different stories depending on what you want it to say but a number and fact you cant argue with is that cannabis has been used either as medicine or for recreational purposes since 2737BC…..People are still using it at the moment , they will always continue to use it an nothing you or anybody can do about that.
    You reference the example we set??? Who are we setting this example to?? Are you implying we are bad people ?? Well im gonna take my bad self and smoke me a joint make supper , put my kid to sleep chat and relax with my wife , maybe watch tv just a bit to tired today for petty crime , hitting my wife , abusing my child , raping a stranger , murdering an innocent or driving into an innocent family , maybe tommorrow night I will feel a bit more adventurous

  46. Man says:

    FUCK YOU DOCTORS FOR LIFE! HAHA HAHA YOU ARE A BUNCH OF CORRUPT SPINELESS TOSSERS! HOW ABOUT STANDING UP FOR THE REAL NEEDS OF YOUR PATIENTS AND NOT FOR THE BOTTOM LINES OF YOUR BOSSES WHICH ARE THE COMPANIES THAT MAKE THE DRUGS THAT YOU SELL?

    I HAVE CURED MY OWN SKIN CANCERS WITH HIGH GRADER HASHISH OIL. I MAKE MOST OF MY OWN DRUGS AND HAVE CURED MORE PEOPLE OF CANCER THAN ANY OF YOU. FUCK YOU ALL. UNJUST. REISHI AND GANJA CURE US OF MOST AND YOU’ll BE OUT OF WORK SOON ENOUGH WHEN YOUR PATIENTS DON’T TRUST YOU. THE TRUSTWORTHY LEGIT DOCTORS HAVE ALREADY CHOSEN SIDES. I TEACH THEM HOW TO MAKE OIL FOR THEIR PATIENTS, THEY HAVE ALREADY TURNED THEIR BACKS ON UNJUST LAW.

    YOU WILL HAVE TO PRY THE JOINT FROM MY LIPS AND THE PLANT OUT MY GROUND WITH A FUCKING SHOTGUN. THE TIME FOR DEBATE IS LONG OVER.

    REMEMBER. GOD IS WATCHING YOU.

  47. WHAT A MAN! says:

    And remember if you don’t like it and the law says it is wrong… FUCK IT…AND FUCK YOU. WE DONT FUCKING CARE ANYMORE.

    The law is UNJUST and unenforceable and turns innocent, good people into criminals and not to mention fucks up more lives than any drug, even booze, ever has.. And the man likes his occasional tipple and it is also his fucking right! Actually its his right to own a fucking GUN.. and this herb rolled up in paper between his lips? Well yer just gonna have to accept it! CUZ IT IS HIS FUCKING RIGHT!

  48. @ JOHAN says:

    You know what buddy..my memory is still sharper than yours and I smoke more than 10 joints a day and I’m pretty fucking smart or so I’m told.I’m too busy teaching people how to feed themselves to growing my future in the earth to care.. I can rattle off the unjust drug schedules if you want including the bit about the schedule 8 drugs having no medical or therapeutic benefit. I am not going to as this is just a flat out lie and the time for debate and entertainment of hypocrisy is long over. Some of us have been fighting this in the trenches for a long time and we have lost enough good men..Good god fearing men. Brothers, and sisters gone to jails for something which is their FUCKING right, never to return the same, and you know what..enough is enough. Evil prospers when good men do nothing.

    And nevermind, you and Louis are just stupid fucking IDIOTS. May god have mercy on your stupid souls. If you haven’t heard already THC IS the CURE FOR CANCER. I don’t know why all are scared to say it outright. THC OIL IN MEGA ILLEGAL DO$E$ CURES CANCER. And if you don’t believe it..FUCK YOU ALL AND DIE..or get high..

  49. OscarGrouch says:

    Who would have thought there were so many aggressive marijuana smokers, maybe that prohibition stereotype isn’t as far off the mark as I thought. Lets try and present logical, polite arguments instead of mediocre ones dotted with FUCK and FUCK YOU’s throughout. Buzz has the right idea IMHO
    Why do I get the feeling the last 3 posts were the same dude with different names…

  50. mreowpower says:

    ^^ also had that feeling as he puts all his colourful vocab in CAPITALS. @ the past 3 posters (poster?) I understand your frustration but remember aggression gets treated with aggression getting angry isn’t helping anyone certainly not yourself, swearing also makes you look rather silly, there’s better adjectives bro. we are all very empowered whether you don’t feel it or do whenever I feel un-empowered I remember this metaphor “you can enter a dark room, filled with hatred and evil and close mindedness and hypocrisy and light the smallest candle,create the smallest light and immediately that darkness flees but you can’t do the opposite you cant come into a well lit room filled with hope and love and righteousness and knowledge and truth you can bring as much darkness as you want and it won’t have ANY effect whatsoever” we are all extremely empowered we are empowered by the truth will win eventually, its impossible for us not too.

  51. Dagga is my right MAN says:

    Of course is is me!

    All me.. And it is no matter, wake up, the law is criminal. People are dying because of it and our inability to stand up for ourselves.. so what, we must be all passive and shit haha while my bros and sisters are getting raped in prison for standing up for your right to access and choice of medicine. The more angry the masses get the better I reckon. This injustice has only been allowed to continue for so long because good men have done nothing.

  52. OscarGrouch says:

    You seem to post a post with the same general content in multiple threads, two or 3 posts in a row. It bothers my inner moderator hahahha

  53. OscarGrouch says:

    You seem to post a post with the same general content in multiple threads, two or 3 posts in a row. It bothers my inner moderator. Though I do appreciate that there are only 3 unnecessary capitals in this one hahahha

  54. mreowpower says:

    Hahahahaha, on the topic of conviction in my opinion and I mean no disrespect each persons circumstance is different but to be convicted in my opinion to get caught with it on you , you must be pretty dumb, you checks a road block approaching just chuck it, is any amount of money worth a criminal record and butt rape?

  55. Johan says:

    A study by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) tested the I.Q. of more than 1,000 New Zealanders. They were from the city of Dunedin and the study was done over a 25-year span, once at age 13 and again at age 38. The study found five (5) percent of the study group was dependent on dagga (marijuana, cannabis). Those 5 percent showed a decline of eight I.Q. points from age 13 to 38.

  56. hippo for 20ing says:

    interesting half truth how bout telling us what the rest dropped by and the group had according to you ONLY 50 people that are dependent on cannabis, how many of those 50 abuse cannabis or is that not in the study and how many of the 1000 have themselves used cannabis. how about a link to the whole study instead of a single bias fact? and at what age did those 50 start smoking cannabis and do any of them use alcohol (proven to kill brain cells while cannabis has not been proven).

  57. Johan says:

    Hallo Hippo, I am sure you are familiar with google. Just do a search if you care. The details of the study are given above. Also, (to everybody) try to calm down. Can we discuss this like adults without resolving to swearing, insulting etc? Or is that your strategy to convince people that you are right?

    Most comments above are quoting popular sayings amongst dagga proponents without referring to verifiable studies. Buzz at least tried. But in his original comment on Dr van Eedens article (top of page) he claims that “the relationship between schizophrenia and cannabis use has not made it from theory to fact”. Then he makes reference to a website http://www.scitzophrenia.com that apparently shows that schizophrenia numbers have not risen. I couldn’t find this statement on the website link provided but what I did find was that this very website with info schizophrenia he linked to published this: “Experts estimate that between 8% and 13% of all schizophrenia cases are linked to marijuana / cannabis use during teen years.” I don’t expect Buzz (and many others above), who are non-medical, to be in contact with medical publications (i don’t just mean the internet) and medical conferences that exposes doctors to the mounting evidence linking schizophrenia with cannabis, but lets at least give an ear to those that are.

    One such an expert, Professor Robin Murray, who is a leading researcher in the link between schizophrenia and cannabis, said his view of the drug had changed in recent years. He used to be skeptical when cannabis was blamed. “Relatives would say “It seems to be the cannabis that makes my son or daughter or brother psychotic” and I would say, “Oh, they’re being hysterical, they’re just trying to look for something to blame”. We’ve come to realise that it does have a significant effect, but it has taken us a long time to wake up to this.” In a recent expert meta-analysis survey of the evidence published by different scientists in different countries state that research “has consistently found that cannabis use is associated with schizophrenia outcomes later in life” (1).

    There were many other studies done on this in recent years as well. I can continue to publish them if you like. Best regards. Johan.

    (1) “Cannabis use in young people: the risk for schizophrenia” Neurosci Biobehav Rev. 2011 Aug;35(8):1779-87. Epub 2011 Apr 16. Casadio P, Fernandes C, Murray RM, Di Forti M.

  58. Gnarls says:

    Dude, they just keep spouting the same shit over and over again. Methinks the doctor should stop presenting half truths and present the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
    Cheers

  59. TerminalToker says:

    usertest1 said:
    A study by the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS) tested the I.Q. of more than 1,000 New Zealanders. They were from the city of Dunedin and the study was done over a 25-year span, once at age 13 and again at age 38. The study found five (5) percent of the study group was dependent on dagga (marijuana, cannabis). Those 5 percent showed a decline of eight I.Q. points from age 13 to 38.

    “In reality, standardized IQ test scores are converted from raw scores to scaled scores using a conversion table (See the IQ scores classification here). This takes into account the mental ability over age of the test taker which ensures that the mean IQ for the population remains 100 across the life span (based on the bell-curve). As we age (as early as 30!), some of our mental performance may be affected and this would be reflected in our scores (depending on the tasks that make up IQ tests). With this, good IQ test scores takes into account changes in mental ability over age by modifying the IQ score, which in turn, shows little decline in IQ scores (assuming other factors remain the same).” http://www.brainy-child.com/expert/iq-score.shtml

    Iq Scores degrade as you get older….

    Just saying…

  60. TerminalToker says:

    usertest1 said:
    Hey Buzz To the folk who get treated like criminals for puffing weed – I got a simple answer. Don’t smoke the stuff! The only reason its such a big deal for you and your cronies is cos you likes to smoke it! Remember – 10 percnt of you guys are addicted to it! http://www.harmonygroup.co.za/addiction-2/marijuana-a-real-addiction/ Regarding alcohol – There are many Christians who don’t drink at all. Like dagga – alcohol can be addictive and so most churches use grape juice when they have communion. Lest keep religion out of the discussion. You were the first to start quoting scripture at me.
    Regarding the scientific evidence against your opiate its all over the scientific journals – detailed scientific studies. As they say – you can lead a horse to the water but you can’t make him drink – especially if the horse can’t see for all the smoke! Oh I see there is a new one just out: http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/11417/20120809/marijuana-brain-damage-memory-learning-drug-habit-addiction.htm however the best reason for me to avoid the stuff is the example you and your friends set!

    And then I was like O.o

    Are you really a doctor? You didnt by any chance get your degree out of a lucky packet did you?

  61. Jacques2212 says:

    Unfortunately this argument has turned into one of those where we are trying to have a rational argument with someone who has a different view on the subject, who just does not want to accept the points that the other side states. Beacuse of their preconception, they are unwilling to take any points the other side is making and closing their minds to the truth. No matter how many facts or research journals you throw at them Buzz, there will be an irrational response or counter-argument from their side. It’s like trying to explain to a christian that there is no God (I dont support this type of argument, everyone is entitled to their own view) . Luckily the arguments dont matter much, the people will decide and I believe they will make the right choice.

    Now I’m going to go take a spliff
    :)

  62. Praxis says:

    I took the time to read all the replies too this thread; I find, as someone mentioned, that most of these people who are against the legalization of weed have already made up there minds, they just will not listen, no matter how good your facts and arguments are. They are fixed on the idea that weed should stay illegal, especially the people who are arguing from a religious point of view.

    The thing is, I am a Christian and I smoke weed. I am a very open minded christian. I find that a lot of churches have all these rules that they expect their people to follow and it makes you wonder that if Jesus came knocking on their door that they would actually let him in. You see, Jesus was called a glutton and a drunkard by religious men, but the son of God never support self-righteousness, not now and not then.
    Religion and Jesus are on two opposite spectrums. The one is the Work of God and the other is a man made invention. One is the cure and the other is the infection. Religion says “Do”; Jesus says “Done”. Religion says “Slave”; Jesus says “Son”. Religion puts you in BONDAGE, but Jesus sets you FREE. Religion makes you blind, but Jesus makes you see. Thats way Jesus and Religion are two different clans. Religion is man searching for God, Christianity is God searching for man, which is why salvation is freely mine and forgiveness is my own, not based on my merits but Jesus’s obedience alone, because he took the crown of thorns and the blood dripped down his face; he took what we all deserved, I guess thats why we call it grace and while being murdered he yelled out, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do!”, because when he was dangling on that cross he was thinking of you. He absorbed all your sin and he buried it in the tomb.
    So that is why in a way I am against religion, because when Jesus said “It is finished” he meant it. Don’t get me wrong though, I love the church, I love the Bible and I do believe in sin.

    People have to remember that it is only weed, a plant created by God. People are not breaking any commandments when using it.
    Matthew 19:16-19
    Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?” 17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ “

  63. Bananarama says:

    Went through this propaganda piece:

    http://www.harmonygroup.co.za/addiction-2/marijuana-a-real-addiction/

    The only direct reference I can find to cannabis and opioid receptors is a blog post that mentions “studies” without any actual links, references or information. I am by no means saying this is or is not true, the brain is after all the ultimate chemistry set but the comparison and inference of this one blog post is at best a scare tactic, at worst a misguided fool that misread or misunderstood the “studies” this person used as “references” in this article.

    I have been to several rehabs, I have seen heroin/coediene/opium/opiate withdrawal first hand (and by far, Coediene withdrawal is the worst, yet it is legal and available over the counter in South Africa), I have seen methadone used as a substitute, I have also seen cold turkey (@ NCCC).

    As we are talking about the potential of marijuana addiction I thought I would mention the “withdrawal” symptoms I have seen people go through after heavy and continual use.
    There are no fits, there are no shakes, no raised blood pressure, no cold sweats, no heart palpitations, most importantly (as we are comparing cannabis to opiates here) there are no heart attacks, strokes or deaths. The worst symptom that may be related to “withdrawal” I have seen are a few sleepless nights but I would say it’s far more likely these come from being in a new environment surrounded by strangers being bored out of your mind and having nothing to drink but coke, coffee and water and nothing to do but sit and chain smoke (I became a chain smoker due to rehab’s).

    The statistics given in The Science of Marijuana (2008) are quite similar to alcohol addiction % wise, only a much larger part of the population drink meaning there is a much larger population of alcoholics on the planet (but we knew that already).
    Here is the difference: Many of those alcoholics will be directly killed by there drug of choice. Not a single one of the “dagga addicts” (I really still do not believe this but am trying to be objective) will be directly killed by the use of marijuana.
    Indirectly you will see almost exactly the same pattern although where alcohol makes you reckless cannabis makes you if anything over cautious.

    Let’s take a look at the “Tell tale signs”

    Tolerance increase and withdrawal:
    For the last ten+ years I have had no more than a joint a day. My usual amount is less than half in a day. A joint on average last me 3 days.
    When I don’t have it does not matter, I’ll get some tomorrow, next week, next month, whatever. I won’t climb in my car and go hunt some down.

    Using more than intended:
    How much is to much? Its weed, there is no such thing as to much, smoking a whole joint, smoking a few puffs, end of the day it will make no difference to your health, your well-being or even your state of mind, at worst a whole joint means about 20 minutes of couch lock.
    Also, see my reply to “Tolerance increase and withdrawal”.

    Inability to cut down or stop use:
    Umm, most smokers I know cut down or stop on average once to twice a year (I do, I also only eat healthy stuff for that month, drink healthy stuff, my eciggie instead of tobacco and so forth, It’s good to flush your system once in a while).

    Lots of time spent getting high:
    I don’t smoke in the daytime except on occasion when it’s a social thing (braai, picknick etc).
    Usually I will have a jay around 7pm to 9pm then if it was a hard day I will go watch some tv, if not I go gardening (yes at night, I love making plant cuttings, weeding etc in the night, much cooler and the cuttings do much better, especially my roses!).

    Choosing relationships and activities based on whether or not you will be able to get high:
    What? is this person saying that I live in a drug den and, oh wait, I see where this is going, Reefer madness!!

  64. Joseph says:

    Stop arguing for the legalisation of weed from a medical point of view, please!…

    We know it’s about getting stoned without guilt or conscience! You don’t want to be told that what you are doing is bad for you, or wrong, unlawful, or whatever, because Dagga is your DRUG OF CHOICE and that’s really the end of the story!

    No one thinks about the health implications when s/he lights up a splif or bong – people (or at least 99,999%) smoke to get goofed! It is the same with any other drug… they want or need it – even if it is once a week.

    • Thanks for your comment, Joseph.

      We provide links to scientific studies supporting our argument that marijuana can be used as medicine, but you neglect it all by just telling us to “stop”? You’re making your organisation (www.tnt.org.za) look very uninformed and rather childish, to say the least. Keep up with the times buddy, marijuana is legal for medicinal use in 18 states in America, as well as a host of other countries around the world.

      Since TNT LOVE’S their anecdotal evidence, maybe you should watch some videos of multiple sclerosis patients before and after smoking/ingesting marijuana… Then read the studies and the medical journals. Cannabis has been used for centuries as medicine to treat a wide range of ailments. HELL, there is even a new drug, SATIVEX, which is made ENTIRELY out of the Cannabis plants. Sativex has undergone medical trials right here in South Africa. So why, I ask, must we stop with the medical debate? Are you scared the debate will show your entire organization up for what it really is?

    • Buzz says:

      Hi Joseph,

      The health implications of dagga are significantly lower than that of alcohol or tobacco. Do you therefore also consider users or even abusers of these substances to be criminals due to them getting “goofed”?

      I can only hope that you and you ilk start realizing that this is not about being pro-dagga, but that it is in fact about being anti-persecution.

      It is disheartening and extremely insensitive that you would disregard the needs of those who suffer from serious medical conditions. Cannabis provides a safer and more effective medical alternative to prescription drugs from many ailments.

      That you choose to disregard this reflects your intention to ignore the facts and instead favour your own personal agenda… a witch hunt.

      Perhaps it is time to put down the pitch fork and stop blaming dagga for your own failings and the failings of others who could not restrain their substance use.

    • Joe Fish says:

      If you want to talk about “DRUGS OF CHOICE” lets talk about Sugar and Crude Oil – because those two substances are consumed with an insatiable appetite by modern society that makes a crack heads affliction look like a disney movie.

      What is your drug of Choice? TV, Church, your weekly jog, Chocolate, Coca-cola, Simba chips or maybe revealing in your own small world of ignorance and intolerance?

      Much besides, if i want to smoke a spliff and get “goofed” on the weekend, what business is it of yours or the states?

  65. cannabinoid says:

    so Joseph………….. you basically saying cannabis has no medical benefits?

  66. hippo for 20ing says:

    i smoke weed because i like it! and there’s nothing anybody can say or do to stop me, it improves my quality of life both physically and mentally! i don’t, nor have i ever abused it and as a young successful person who has used cannabis for quite a few years i can say that it is not for everyone and that’s fair, but it not fair to suppress my rights just because of the few who’s racist, Calvinistic views do not agree with mine. I will be the first to protest if my views were being forced upon them (even tho i don’t agree with their views). It wouldn’t be fair for weed to be forced down their throats but don’t deprive my body of weed in the same breath! the fact is you don’t know better! and nobody really cares what you think or know because it’s none of our business

  67. Sparky says:

    Wow! LOLOL its about a year later and dfl or their news people have “copy+pasted” a whole new smeer champain about the first person ever to die from dagga, the activists was quick to jump in and correct them, but out of all the comments about the death of dagga only 1 was anti dagga, the closed the comments now but its still funny to read :)

    http://gatewaynews.co.za/warning-as-woman-dies-from-smoking-dagga/

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